Post Workout Nutrition Debate Part II
By Nick Mitchell • Apr 20th, 2008 • Category: bodybuilding, fat loss, nutritional supplements, personal trainingThe following is the second part of an ongoing discussion on post workout nutrition from my London Personal Training Q&A Group:
Question:
My knowledge of the topic (post workout nutrition) is not that vast but I do find it interesting. For me adding muscle is a mix of science, art and experience there is not one formula that fits all.
I think that diet and supplementation (whey, malto and all that not including here other types of supplements) play as equal role in the development of muscle.
Gym and kitchen and I think lots of guys forget about the kitchen part of the equation.
Nick you said “for many other chubby insulin resistant people they don’t want fast acting carbs AT ANY TIME.”
So if these people are cutting you would exclude all carbs after working out?
Also if a guy is bulking and has a very slow metabolism would you still recommend simple carbs post workout?
In my personal case I always think authors assume that you workout early and can have a post workout shake and then another one 45 minutes after that and then dinner and maybe a pre bed drink. It is not realistic.
I workout from 8.00 till 9.00 get home 9.45 and in bed at 11.00 so I think I never make the most of my window of opportunity and have no idea how to sort that.
In my opinion is a reoccurring thing in the majority of literature about nutrition authors assume that you workout early and have time to eat loads after that which is not always the case
(Further) Question:
Would these chubby insulin resistant people have their insensitivity mitigated by a carb switching diet?
That’s a good point there mate, about the cutting cycle… would the body not convert protein to sugars to replenish glycogen should that sugar not be provided? Would omitting sugar totally be damaging?
Would this mean that one must up the protein intake after the workout if on a cutting phase?
I imagine this is the sort of thing which can be determined only through a consultation with a professional… it seems all that posting that article has accomplished is to raise yet more questions..
*sigh* back to the drawing board…
Nick Mitchell:
You are exactly right. Expertise in putting on muscle as well as getting hyper lean (as opposed to merely “defined”) are all a combination of knowledge (science), art (an intrinsic “feel”, and experience. The bottom line is that you need all 3 to be an “expert” and thats why its so hard to find really good people. Book learning is great and essential, but unless you have done it yourself you cannot possibly hope to appreciate all the nuances involved, nor have a feel for what works in different circumstances.
I also concur 100% about the gym and the kitchen being of equally crucial importance. I can kill a client in the gym and stimulate lots of POTENTIAL muscle growth, but it will remain solely as potential unless he / she does what I ask of them in the kitchen. I don’t take on all that many clients any more as I am very demanding, but as an example my latest client, who has been training for 6/7 years, 5 of which were with a personal trainer, has increased his lean body mass by 4.9% in 5 weeks. These are phenomenal results and can be attributed in large part to his absolute dedication and discipline with my nutritional rules.
To answer your questions -
Yes, I would exclude PWO carbs for chubsters.
If a guy is “bulking” I assume that to mean he wants to put on muscle and not mere bulk. If he is fat (over 15% BF) then I would get him leaner first as that will make him more sensitive the anabolic effects of insulin. So no post workout carbs.
If he is lean but with a slow metabolism I would have him consume PWO carbs, yes. But we would go very tight on carbs at other times.
You finish training at 9pm, why can’t you have one shake at 9pm. One at 9.45pm. And then have a supper at 10.45pm?
Nick Mitchell:
Carb switching? You mean carb rotation? Yes that will increase sensitivity, but better to get the chubsters lean first. The nutrient partitioning effect is much more pronounced (in a positive fashion) the leaner you are. To use myself as an example, I am leanish right now (10% BF) so when I broke my diet and “rotated my carbs” (ha!) on Sunday and ate a giant Dominos pizza and a tonne of waffles, the next day my bodyweight had shot up from 253 to 260 and I looked even leaner. My body converts the carbs to glycogen very readily and stores them inside the muscle cells with a supercompensatory effect. On a different scale, and possibly in a different way until you really know your body, this is what you all should be looking to achieve with PWO carb ups.
Yes, some of your protein may well be converted into glycogen (gluconeogenesis) but thats no big deal. Its going to happen a little bit - the body isn’t a test lab where everything is perfect. However, its going to happen a hell of a lot less than if you ingested simple sugars.
I wouldn’t necessarily up the PWO protein in a cutting phase, wlthough your thinking is logical. I would certainly ensure the protein is high generally though.
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Great article mate, I wish i could do that. Eat dominoes and get leaner.
Please tell me . . .
I’m all ears